Let’s quickly recap how you got this far….
“After graduating from Milan Polytechnic in 2002, I worked for a year at Sunstar Braking in Briosco, and then moved from January 2004 to Ducati Corse: in that year we started to develop the software for MotoGP, which was then still in its embryonic stage. Until 2007, I worked with the development team on the various engine management strategies, such as traction control, engine braking, ride by wire: twice a month, weather permitting, we did track tests (in Jerez, Valencia, Barcelona, Mugello or Misano) with the then test rider Vittoriano Guareschi. The rest of the time, however, we would spend testing the various strategies in the simulator and on the test bench, to verify their reliability or impact on the engine: for example, by performing bench tests on the reliability of the engine brake we could compare the actual torque output value with the one estimated by the software, something that, at the time, was not possible to verify on the track. Since 2008, in addition to development in MotoGP, I started my career as Chief Technician, working alongside Biaggi in Superbike, and then switched full-time to GP the following year with Team Pramac.”
Essentially you have lived through almost the entire history of Ducati in MotoGP (which began in 2003), including Stoner’s victories.
“Stoner was a phenomenon, pure talent, but for him to win the world championship in 2007 you also have to consider that back in 2006, the last year of the 1000cc, Capirossi played for the world championship. The bike – Capirossi and Bayliss on Official Ducati, Hoffman and Cardoso on Pramac – was quite competitive with everyone. From the following year, with the switch to 800cc, the Ducati engine had a big advantage over the competition, and with Casey’s talent it was possible to capitalize.”
After Stoner, however, it was Rossi’s turn. What was the transition like?
“A disaster contrary to expectations. To break a lance in favor of Valentino, the advantage of the Ducati engine had been gradually waning over the years even before his arrival, narrowing the gap separating the opponents and highlighting the limits of the bike: although Stoner still managed to win, the switch to the Bridgestone single tire in 2009 was the coup de grace. If before you could make up for some of the chassis problems by changing only the tire specification, by 2009 the tires were the same for everyone, and the problems were increasingly evident, so much so that Casey himself began to struggle. With the arrival of Valentino and Stoner’s move to Honda in 2011, all these problems simply came to the surface.”
Can we give an example?
“During the Stoner years, the media and opponents were praising our “anti-wheeling” system, and we, as Ducati employees, were merely pleased with this praise. The truth, however, was another, and with Rossi’s arrival it came out: back in the pits after his first outing, Valentino asked the mechanics why the anti-wheeling had been deactivated, only to discover that, in fact, this technology had never existed on that bike. The shortcomings of the bike, then, were translated with the results on the track, already from the first tests in Valencia in 2010: suffice it to say how in the last race – raced a few days earlier on the same circuit – Stoner with Ducati obtained the pole position and then finished second in the race. On the first day of testing, on the other hand, while Stoner was always first, riding the Honda though, Rossi on Ducati wandered around 15th position.”
Was there so much difference between the two?
“Valentino had an extraordinary head: he was capable of challenging everyone, even those who were stronger than him. Casey had exceptional driving talent, more than Valentino, but he struggled to handle the pressure: every time he stood on the grid he was nauseous, anxiety ate him alive, he wanted to go home. That, too, led to his retirement. Stronger than them, in my opinion, there is only Marquez.”
How come?
“Because it is the perfect union of the two: Marc combines Stoner’s talent with Rossi’s mental toughness.”
Going back to history for a moment, with Rossi we can say that Ducati’s darkest years began.
“From those years, people began to work differently, frantically. Not by choice, but by obligation: if things don’t work, you try to improve them right away. If before you tested a certain number of parts in a certain period of time, in those years you tried twice as many solutions in half the time. Clearly this frenzy was translated into the results on the track. So at the end of 2012 there was a first change, because Filippo Preziosi (then technical director) was replaced by Bernhard Gobmeier, a man from the Audi world. But it was a pretty messy year: there was no real technical leadership, who knew where to direct development. There was a management crisis.”
Did the real turning point come with the arrival of Dall’Igna?
“He arrived in late 2013 and early 2014. His greatest asset was, precisely, that he was able to give a clear direction to the team and push on development. In his early years, absurd schedules were made and everything was tried, even getting it wrong: a lot of technologies, perhaps, gave a great advantage, but also big complications for which it was not worth the risk. All of this, however, paid off, allowing us to get closer to Honda and Yamaha, which until 2014 had raced in a separate category.”
Then with the switch from Bridgestone to Michelin in 2016, there was further improvement.
“The changeover to Michelin coincided with the changeover to single software, so there were two factors: before 2016 there could be bikes that had a good chassis balance with Bridgestones, but with the new Michelin tires, which were completely different in braking and grip, such bikes went into crisis, compared to others that, instead, reversed their course. Rule changes always lead to these situations. A prime example is Mugello, where both Valentino and Jorge broke their engines on the same weekend: on the downshift, the engine ended up out of revs. Whereas with the old software everything was under control, now with the single software if all the parameters were not entered correctly, you ran into engine failure. When faced with changes, if you don’t have the typical Ducati readiness, it’s normal to run into problems. Then, little by little, the gap between the best and the most struggling ones is always decreasing: just think how much more power the Ducati engine had until just two years ago than the competition, while now the gap is much reduced. If the regulations are stable, it is normal that with time we get better and, therefore, the level of the various houses flattens out. In addition to these factors (Michelin tires and unique software), there is also the contribution of the wings, brought by Ducati in 2015, then regulated in 2017, which gave an additional advantage.”
In the last two seasons has the same thing happened with the lowerer?
“Yes, that was also introduced by Ducati, and until the others were able to adapt, it brought a significant advantage. Sometimes, however, the opponents don’t even try to catch up with you, but try to penalize you, as in the case of the front lowerer, introduced in the Sepang tests of 2022: the abolition of the front lowerer from 2023 was sold as an economic discourse, because the houses would be called upon to make additional efforts during an already difficult period. In reality it was out of unwillingness to spend time and resources on developing new technologies already developed by competitors. Better to spend time and money on something that others do not have and take the advantage. The Japanese are very slow in this, and here it is much easier for them to oppose new technologies.”
Speaking of development, nineteen years have passed since you started working at Ducati: how much has changed?
“The work itself, it has changed little: you always try to make the most out of what you have. That’s how it was in 2002 and that’s how it is today. Certainly the software and algorithms have changed quite a bit, because today you also have a lot more data and parameters that didn’t even exist in 2002: trivially, the bike’s lean angle before was only calculated, so it was an estimate, which, however accurate, remained an estimate. Today, however, we are able to detect it directly thanks to the inertial platform. Nowadays we also have the ability to use instrumented wheels on our development bikes that allow us to detect the torque transmitted to the wheel itself. Added to this is also the experience gained on the track: on the dyno we cannot predict everything that actually happens on the track, such as the presence of a depression in the middle of a corner, which can cause a high-side. All this allows us to have so much information, and more and more precise, so that the algorithm becomes more and more complex and, therefore, better and better.”
Since 2009, however, you have left development and dedicated yourself to the role of chief technician.
“I started with different riders each year, and then worked for six years in a row with Iannone when he came to MotoGP with Pramac. I was looking for new challenges and wanted to experience the races more. Sometimes I envy the development team a little bit, but only during the Asian race periods, for example, where you do several consecutive weeks away from home. The feelings you get during the race weekend are incomparable.”
Speaking of Iannone, what was it like working with him?
“Andrea was unlucky to arrive in MotoGP in 2013, the worst year for Ducati and, on the other hand, a glorious year for Marquez-with whom he had played for the title in Moto2 the year before-who won his first world title in the premier class. For someone like Andrea, who is very sure of himself, his abilities and proud, it was hard to accept. Basically, he is a good guy, but this character of his has been a bit of his “cross and delight”: at times, it pushed him to give more than 100 percent to win; at others, it did not allow him to be self-critical, thus to improve himself. His romantic relationships, then, perhaps made the situation even worse: finding himself on magazine covers and being recognized in the mundane only fueled these characteristics of his. The move to Suzuki, then, was a mistake, by his own admission: he left in the year when Ducati was able to take another step forward, turning down a bike for which he would have been the first rider, the benchmark for development. In addition, he went to a team where he found a way of working that, from the start, he did not like and diametrically opposed to past experiences.”
Do you think if he had stayed in Ducati, his career would have continued differently?
“Not necessarily. Suzuki for him was, for sure, a washout, but history is not made with ‘ifs’-there was no certainty that he would win with Ducati. There are infinite variables. Just think of how Dovizioso’s career changed with Iannone’s exit from the box: with the arrival of Lorenzo, Dovi, seeing all the problems of his new teammate, had a huge injection of self-confidence that allowed him to then achieve all the victories and podiums he got. Going from chasing your teammate to beating him every Sunday, if you add to that the fact that he is a five-time world champion, gives you a lot of self-confidence. But again, if Iannone had stayed, we can’t know how it would have gone.”
With Iannone, then, you also switched to Suzuki. How much difference is there?
“There are several aspects to consider: first of all, the fact that the Japanese develop their bikes in Japan, only to have them, however, used by teams run by Europeans. What happens is that an official team, in practice, is treated like a satellite team. If at one time the difference between factory and customer teams was only in the parts available (for example, an exhaust that gives you some extra horsepower), now it is different: you need to have upstream people supplied and prepared by the company. In Suzuki I found a team composed mostly of Italian engineers, from Ducati, but they had not been trained by the Suzuki company and did not have the same tools at their disposal as their peers in the other factory teams. Another example may be Dovizioso’s experience in RNF last season: although he had an official bike at his disposal, the team around him did not enjoy the same tools or support from the parent company. If it used to be that the parts the bike was made of counted a lot, today the work of the team counts much more.”
What about at the relational level?
“It changes a lot: in fact, Japanese teams often rely on the Europeans to manage the teams because they would not be able to do it. When a driver has a bad shift and comes back to the pit enraged and starts screaming, the Japanese are not able to handle it. They are afraid even before they have to deal with such situations, let alone experience them.”
In Suzuki, then, you found an environment almost opposite to what you were used to, development-wise. Right?
“Suzuki had the virtue of having a very balanced bike that performed well in different situations. The moment there were changes, such as wings, lowerers, software changes, I witnessed an impressive phlegm. The opposite, precisely, of Ducati, especially in the years of Dall’Igna management. In 2017, when wings were banned, for example, in Suzuki they decided to return to traditional fairings, filing away the “wings” chapter, while Ducati showed up at tests with fairings with huge aerodynamic appendages. Only in Motegi, at the 15th round of the world championship, did Suzuki bring a new fairing with the wings incorporated as per the new regulations. A rather substantial delay. The same happened with the lowerer, for example.”
How did you decide to leave Ducati and embark on this new adventure?
“Iannone asked me to go with him, and I accepted, because at that moment in my life I wanted to experience working in a Japanese team. Plus, in my role, the relationship with the rider is an essential component and, in that case, it was already solid, so it was easy to decide. Plus, as already mentioned, in Suzuki there were several engineers I had worked with in Ducati, so it would have been a transition to a second home.”
And when did Iannone then decide to switch to Aprilia? “In that case I refused, for several reasons: first of all, I wanted to stay in Suzuki for more years, to complete the experience in a Japanese team. Second aspect, the Aprilia bike was not as competitive as it is today and, knowing Andrea’s character and desire to win, it would have been difficult to manage. Then, by changing teams following a rider from team to team, sooner or later, you are left stranded because the relationship that is established over the years with colleagues and team members is lost.”
At the end of 2019 you decided to return to Ducati, with Zarco. What kind of rider is he?
“Johann suffers a lot of pressure, which he also often puts on himself: with the switch from KTM to Avintia, riding a Ducati two years older than the official ones, he managed to snatch, at the third race, a pole position and then a podium. Having regained some self-esteem, from there he began to want more and more results, getting the opposite, however: in 2021 despite never having won, he had a great first half of the season, with excellent results, followed by a terrible ending, full of mistakes, falls, due to the pressure of the media and, above all, his own. From this point of view, he and Andrea were at opposite poles: while Iannone was extremely confident, Johann is someone who is always questioning himself. Sometimes too much so. Then there are also personal situations: we learned later that at that time – in 2021 – he was experiencing a difficult situation at home, with his girlfriend. This part of our work, unfortunately, cannot be controlled but plays a key role. From a certain point of view, it’s as if we are also required to be a bit of a psychologist.”
With him, then, you worked in Pramac: today how much distance is there between the official team and the satellite team?
“At one time there might have been big differences, but today they have flattened out a lot: just think that in Pramac, in the last two seasons, we have had official bikes and very good results. In fact, the only differences are at the management level: priority is given to official riders for any upgrades. But today, a rider from a satellite team, if strong, can easily win, as demonstrated by Morbidelli, Quartararo and Bastianini. What’s more, companies have also realized how much it matters to invest in satellite teams as a source of data: having more competitive bikes on the track allows you to detect more information in the same situation, without having to rely solely on testing or the dyno. Today, then, Ducati has decided to set up its business with a very specific approach: to take young guys and give them everything they need to win and grow without pressure, all things being equal, so they can see the value of the rider right away. The problem, however, is with the riders themselves, who complain about the differences between factory and satellite bikes, claiming to be at a disadvantage and not challenging themselves. Only those who know the bikes and their differences well can really assess how much their results depend on the bike.”
From this year you start a new challenge with Enea Bastianini. You have already had the opportunity to work together in Valencia. Is there already a harmony?
“We had the chance to spend some time together in the days between the Motegi and Philip Island races, before the Valencia test in November: the work to be done during those rounds had already been planned, because Enea was coming from a very good weekend a few days before and the two bikes – the one he raced with and the one he tested in the test – changed very little, so already having these certainties and being able to turn good times from the start gives more serenity. A completely different situation from what happens on race weekends, but the first sensations were definitely positive: he is a young guy and, unlike others, he is very “bread and salami,” not very mounted. He always likes to eat all together, he wants to create the group, which is a very positive aspect. We’ll see how the championship will start and whether the results will come: unfortunately, these are crucial in creating the relationship between the chief technician and the rider. Although the way of working is the same, whether you win or finish last, what matters in the end is always only the result you bring home. Then there may be cases of pilots with whom you manage to create a good relationship regardless of the results, but that is always what is important. In Enea’s case, it will be crucial to see how he will handle the pressure: if last year, without any pressure or expectation, he managed to win four races and finish second in two others, in Team Gresini, now that he is in the official team we have to see how he will perform.”
Enea is paired with Bagnaia, against whom he has already fought for victory on several occasions last season. In your opinion, is it risky to have in the same team two riders who can play for the World Championship?
“We could talk about this for hours, but in my opinion, if a rider has a teammate who can play them, they are spurred on to do better. If, for example, you come to a track and the weekend starts badly, there are two options for the team: either it’s the bike, or it’s the rider. If you have two outliers, you can tell right away whose fault it is. For me, it is more profitable to have two roosters in the henhouse. In other cases, due to lack of resources, you focus only on one rider: you pay more attention to his needs, however, you also have fewer terms of comparison.”
Regarding the bike, however, how much has it changed from last year?
“First of all, I can say that how much you change the bike from the previous year is inversely proportional to how competitive you are: trivially, between 2014 and 2015 the bike definitely changed more than it did this year compared to last. This does not happen because you run out of ideas, but because once you start winning a lot, then you proceed a little bit with lead feet. You try to make as few mistakes as possible. You no longer have the urgency to try improvements to bring home results: now, if changes are made, you do it because you are sure to bring improvements. The lowerer, in this sense, was a gamble: trying new parts requires the use of resources and time, and therefore also mistakes.”
At the beginning of the season, on several occasions, did results fall short of expectations for this reason as well?
“Exactly. Some races were thrown out because you still had too little experience on that particular tool, which Ducati can no longer afford. For this year, in fact, it has been decided that for each rider an old bike and a new bike will be brought: this is because if on some circuits, perhaps, the improvements of the new bike give their results, on others critical issues may emerge that have never been addressed before. Moreover, last year’s bike differs little from the new one, except in some improvements made to the drivability of the engine “.
Starting this year there is the new feature of the Sprint Race. What do you think about it? “It will change a lot, however, I don’t know how yet. The qualifying result will be even more important, because it will affect both starting grids. There will be a greater advantage for those who usually make the start their strong point and those who can manage the tires better in the first laps of the race, sending them to temperature correctly. Now, moreover, it will be known as early as Friday whether the driver will start in the top twelve or further back. It will certainly change the strategy of the teams and drivers. Stress management will also count a lot. One will no longer be able to spend so much time rehearsing during the weekend.”
Bastianini is someone who has made a comeback his weapon of choice.
“He will have to change his approach: many of his victories have come in comebacks, but there will be no more relying on fine-tuning the bike that pays off in the final laps of the race. In fact, one will perhaps have to dare more by sacrificing a little in the final part. As a novelty in itself, I don’t mind. I worry that this format may penalize my rider.”